Melissa 

Wow. Okay. Well, I’m sure we could dive in even more. That sounds like so much. So much there. I’m so curious about you mentioned that it was kind of always in the cards, do you think you always knew that you would pursue entrepreneurship? Or was it that traditional Chinese medicine that you are both you knew that you were going to pursue both at some point?

I think to me, I knew I always wanted to work for myself, ultimately. And if I ever took that, you know, make that choice, eventually, it would be related to Chinese medicine. Because Chinese medicine really is rooted in entrepreneurship. It’s about you being out there as a healer, and you being out there as a business development person, you know, it’s you being out there as that advocate, not just for your trade, but also for the patients or clients you treat. So the whole profession has been for the past, like, you know, almost 2500 years the definition of entrepreneurship. So to me to dive back into the family business, and really become an entrepreneur, and in Chinese business, Chinese medicine is really a joy and a privilege.

Jiaming 

Yeah. So it sounds like Yeah, it really came from like a heartfelt place of really being aligned with with this purpose and probably watching your family, your father as well be an entrepreneur.

Yeah, so my father has like one of the largest Chinese medicine clinics in northeastern China. He has been running that clinic for the past, like, you know, 20 years, he has been in the profession for 40 years. So I he really started building the clinic and started this whole like entrepreneurship journey, when in the in the late 90s, when, you know, China was just opening up. So he was really the pioneer in a family for that, I think in to a certain extent I’m just following his footsteps in my own way.

Melissa 

And tell us more about your own way. I’d love to hear you speak more about your company.

Jiaming 

So one is an extension of our family Chinese medicine business where we provide our family’s cherished formulas to optimize people’s health in particular in the field of longevity So we can all live as happy and independent for as long as you know we could. We also integrate the traditional part of Chinese medicine, which is to provide customized one on one consultation to individuals with chronic disorders. But we do that 100% online, the reason for that is because I have been very fortunate to spend a huge part of my life just traveling around, you know, both for work and for leisure reasons. And Chinese medicine is such a gift to the world to to civilization, and I would like to see patients wherever they’re based. So the only way I could do that is to see people virtually. So we have patients who are based in the US, of course, but we also have patients who are based in like Singapore, as far as France, so it’s really been a joy to like, you know, interact with people from different countries, and then to really contribute to their health journey in that sense. The other aspect is that we use my father’s treasured, you know, his own herbal formula. We right now, and we have two that is to optimize people’s like, health in the form of no pain, better movement health, which we all want, right, by spending too much time sitting in front of a laptop and all of that. So it also really, I think it really is revolutionary, in a sense, because in this country, we’re focused so much on just like no pain, but really the wisdom of Kun and the wisdom of Chinese medicines that you should think about your flexibility to think about your movements, like how well do you rather than just like, isolating yourself from the feeling, okay. So it’s a formula that has been in my family for 40 years. So we’re really excited to release this to US market.

Melissa 

How great. And so it really sounds like yeah, you, you’re able to with the way you set up your business, you’re able to really reach people around the globe and spread your passion for what you’ve created.

Jiaming 

Yeah, I think I’m very fortunate in that sense. And I love languages. I’m multilingual. I know you’re multilingual. And it’s really a special gift to interact in other languages and other cultures in a sense. And I think it’s a joy, like you’re in a pandemic, you know, we all crave that personal interconnection, and we miss it. So, but because of the way we do one on one consultation, I’m able to, you know, for example, travel to the office just by interacting with a patient of mine who lives there. In French, I mean, I don’t speak French, but her son translates for her. So I was able to kind of get a sense of what the environment is like, and all that. So yes, it’s really special.

Melissa 

Yeah, you know, I don’t think I’ve mentioned it on the podcast before that I’m also a Spanish speaker, and and my clients are around the globe as well. And I couldn’t agree more with what you’re saying. It’s like you get to travel the globe from your home office. It’s really is a privilege to be able to do that.

Jiaming 

Yeah, I read your profile. I know that you lived in Madrid for a long time, right?

Melissa 

Yeah, it’s my consider it my…I’m in Seattle now. But I would consider Madrid my second home. Is that a place that you’ve had the opportunity to visit?

Jiaming 

Yeah, I’ve been to Spain so many times and Madrid is one of my favorite cities, and definitely Andalucia. I would love to speak that that particular accent for the rest of my life, but I am yet to master it.

Melissa 

Well, I once upon a time had Andalucian roommates, and I never mastered their accent, but I didn’t manage to understand them. But I could completely go off on a tangent right now just speaking about Spain and how wonderful it is. But I want to I want to dive back into your story. What are some of the challenges you faced as you started on this path of entrepreneurship?

Jiaming 

Oh, there was so many challenges. I think so two, so the two main ones, which I will focus, I think the first one is social media. So I’m an economist by training. So I’m used to writing all have long academic articles and giving, you know, talk behind a closed door in a think tank setting. And to go from that to be really out there promoting a personal culture of mine. It’s almost like I did a 360 of my life. So I think for the first really six months of establishing Kun I was just in this very, I was in like self tormenting myself between I don’t really want to do social media too. I feel like I have to, but ultimately, you know, I got over it. Because but that was a tough one that was really a tough one. And, you know, I ultimately decided to create content that in my old days, I will be like, Well, you haven’t done a full article about it yet. But like these days, people learn something about my culture, people learn something from, you know, my father’s 45 years of clinical training. So that’s good enough, even if it means it’s in a format of a reel, like a 15 second reel. So I go over that, but that was pretty tough. It’s still an ongoing journey I have with myself, I think the second part, which I’m sure you’re familiar with it, given that you do this wonderful podcast on this topic is really to be okay with  delegating tasks. You know, I’m a, my father and I own Kun, but the day to day, social media, the business part of it, I run it myself. And I really had a difficult time delegating a lot of that tasks, to others, which I now do, because in the early days, I think every single task, despite, you know, regardless of how meaningful it is, you think other people are going to get it wrong. And then you have to fix it. And then you just got into this frantic and anxiety mood and think that I can’t trust other people, I must do everything myself. I still do a huge portion of things myself, like, for example, like we’re very unique in that sense, I ship packages myself, but of course products, you will get a personal card for me. But I have learned to delegate a lot of the tasks, especially the ones I’m not good at to other people. So that has really helped. But in the early days, it was a struggle.

Melissa 

Yeah, yeah. That outsourcing it. It is it’s kind of a bit of a mountain to climb a lot of the time. I’m so curious, do you what are your ambitions for your company? Do you hope to grow?

Jiaming 

Yeah, so I guess with our company it’s a little bit different. My I am finishing my last year of training in Chinese medicine in California, we have like a four year program. So it’s very fun. And my hope for the company is that we will continue to serve people who need it with customized herbal solutions to tackle their chronic health issues. And I think I would ideally, I would like to definitely increase the number of patients I’m able to see this year onwards. And for Kun, you know, we will, I would like for Kun to really grow in a sense that if we were like a small company, so I think if we sell like 6k bottles this year, I’ll be very happy. But most importantly, most even more important, that is for people, for people to understand the importance of movement health, in terms of deciding your long term health. And for us to grow to a certain extent where we can unleash our new, two new products that is in line with longevity health. And I think hopefully we’ll get to that this year.

Melissa 

Oh, that’s great. Okay, so even in the short term, you’ve got some some goals in sight of for growth.

Jiaming 

I’m guilty for being a workaholic, Asian person. Where we always plan ahead. But yeah.

Melissa 

Well, I’m curious about that though. The work, workaholic piece. How do you manage that? Because you have a lot you that you’re juggling? And you said and mother, daughter, sister, business owner, student, you’ve got quite a lot going on? Yeah.

Jiaming 

Oh, you’re also a mother of two kids. So I just want

Melissa 

I just have one child, but and a dog.

Jiaming 

Well, I count that dog as a family member. So I can’t imagine having that, I don’t think I can handle it. Yeah, so I have realized, you know, since I mean, one thing that I really value, and I think what really helps me a lot is I have a psychology like therapist I worked with who herself is AAPI, but she’s Canadian. And we work. We have calls like once every month because I am a firm believer in the importance of mental health, mental well being in particular for anybody who has a company of their own. This is no small feat for one to undertake such you know, a concentrated amount of stress and I personally cannot say, you know, cannot like thank, psychology enough to really help me not just to unwind, but really to get out of your head. I think as an entrepreneur, especially as a minority women, solo entrepreneurs, so much of the time, what I do is to go in my head again and again, again, about, you know, sometimes a very tiny thing that ultimately doesn’t really matter. So to really get out of that box, and to talk to someone about it, and to really reaffirm, your belief in yourself is fundamental, and I really credit it. I really credit for for like, getting me out of my comfort zone, I really enjoy social media. Because, you know, it’s all about whether I’m confident in showing myself my authentic self, because I used to look at a lot of the influencers, and I’m like I am that I’m definitely not that. But now I’m comfortable. And I think when you’re comfortable, you just are willing to share things with people, and you will be surprised at what you get.

Melissa 

Yeah, yeah. Well, I just want to repeat it in case anybody missed the part that you also mentioned that your therapist is in the AAPI community, Asian American Pacific Islander community. And, and I know that how important that is to have somebody who can under not just a professional you’re working with but somebody who understands the culture that you’re coming from as well.

Jiaming 

Yes, I mean, I think it’s absolutely everything, for example, after the tragedy, you know, that, sadly, took place in our community, and actually the first tragedy that took place because, you know, that is not really that far from the clinic. So it’s really traumatizing. And to have a therapist who is from the same background, who is like me, a product of the East and West is really crucial, and balancing to not only to, you know, to, to make you feel that you belong to, so you don’t have to explain yourself so much about this, you know, complex feeling you’re going through right now. It is really amazing.

Melissa 

Yeah, yeah. And for anyone listening, we’re recording this towards the end of January 2023. So I know that you’re referencing some of the the terrible violence that has happened in the in the AAPI community this week. And we might be we will be sharing this a few weeks later. But yeah, I know, it’s been a tough week. So thank you for with everything that’s going on for for still being here and sharing your story. Because I think it’s even more important than ever right to say, Hey, you’re not just talking about your business story, you’re talking about your culture as well with the business that you’ve created.

Jiaming 

Yeah, I think, in the states, not only just the AAPI’s, but I think unfortunately, in particular today, the AAPI community has always been felt that other culture, and ourselves, regardless of how long we would have lived into this country, or better, you know, most of us, most of most of those were born in this country, or in my case, I came to this country to, to do master’s degree, you’re always made to feel an outsider, and that your culture cannot be. And that’s your exhausted side. I don’t even know that, if that’s a word. I mean, I really resent word Orientalism. You know, unfortunately, that’s everywhere. Even in Chinese medicine, there are people who insist on calling it Oriental medicine, although we all know that it’s such a bad word these days. And I think, unfortunately, these tragedies, you know, really make the community come together to really evaluate and reassess what is important to us what we value. And this is not an Asian tragedy, this is an American tragedy, right? And to, to make people feel that they they are included, that, you know, AAPI community is welcome that everybody care about them. I think it’s really really important. This, this this point of time, and for me as a person who is a Chinese medicine doctor in training, but also as a member of AAPI community and I live in a in a Asian dominant community. I really owe it to my people and my culture to call out all possible racist acts against AAPI community you know, this morning WSJ released a terrible article, calling, there are too many Asians right after the tragedy. I think it’s important that we all stand up when things are not right. And we proudly talk about our culture because we belong here.

Melissa 

Yeah, absolutely. Yes. I saw that you shared that earlier on LinkedIn, and that the article from the Yeah, from the Wall Street Journal does really, really terrible. So thank you for that reminder of that we all have a role in this, right? It’s an and it’s not just minority, it’s definitely not minority groups, right. And as you know, a white woman I  have that role too,  I have a privileged role to call out those moments of aggression, microaggressions as well. I’m so curious Jiaming, would you feel comfortable and sharing about maybe some of the challenges you faced? And you meant you kind of touched on it the challenges that come with being a woman, especially minority woman, and being an entrepreneur? Can you talk about, are there any specific moments that you’ve encountered where you felt like there’s been kind of some pushback for you with what you’re pursuing with your business?

Jiaming 

Yeah, um, I think that’s a minority women that there is just not enough of us in the field of wellness. In particular, the field I’m in that or I like it or not, is labeled as wellness, and wellness, in particular, we’re in California is a white women dominant, let’s just say it was a white women dominant industry. This is not to say there is like any thing wrong about that is just that there is a strong lack of diversity. Yet, a lot of the practice, you know, whether it’s Reiki or Chinese medicine, they are all from Asia. Right? A lot of and a lot of it from like Africa, I had the privilege of like working as a correspondent, when I was younger, in West Africa, and I was in awe of a lot of the herbology and the practice there. And people in California, I mean, not just California, but globally, the wellness industry, you know, took advantage of yoga, or like Chinese medicine or Reiki. And then yet the industry, this is basically not white culture, yet the industry is too white, there is something missing here. Right, obviously, because that’s where their resources. And I so minority women, you know, when I was in, in the economics field, I was already the minority women. And I was often mistaken as an intern, because people say, Oh, it’s because your looks so young. But really, I mean, I now think about I don’t think that’s a really supposed to be a compliment. But that’s almost, so I didn’t really expect to go from a white older man dominant industry to a white younger women dominant industry. But that’s what we are. So to basically to get through the month to, to talk about my culture and my heritage, essentially, because I’m second generation Chinese practitioners in a field that’s dominant, by by wellness, and, you know, and that lack of diversity is hard. Because, you know, it’s more nuanced than what’s on the surface. It’s like, why yoga was practiced in India back in a day, not for the purpose we do now, right? You want to take the narrative. But through that, you want to take that you want to write your own narrative and get it through. And I think to get it through, you still have to simplify the message, you have to tell yourself not to get distracted by the fluff, like you have to focus on the message. And that’s not always easy, because I think we as minority, women in particular, carry our ancestors, our ancestors burden as well. Where we speak English, we know the culture of the society, the Western Hemisphere, this is the white dominant society we live in. And yet we have a lot of, we have the frustration and the burden of explaining ourselves. And social media is not always a friend, you know, a friendly place for you to talk about the nuanced nature of things. So yeah, that’s, that’s definitely that. Did that answer your question?

Melissa 

Oh, I think it more than answers the question. I think there’s so much we could we could unpack there. So I’m what I’m wondering is, often we talk about entrepreneurs being disruptors of the system. Does disruptor feel like the right word to describe that what you’re doing with the wellness industry?

Jiaming 

That’s a really good question. This. So the word disrupt sounds so aggressive. I would prefer the word reclaim. I think, the ancient wisdom of the Native Americans, for example, right? The wisdom of the Mexican herbalist, the wisdom of Chinese medicine, like the wisdom of Arab medicine, I mean, you lived in Spain, you know, the wisdom of the herb culture, the longtime herb culture, also Moors, like from Arab countries and later passed on to Spain, all of this ancient wisdom that people have practiced and they have learned. To me as economists, that’s all data. That’s longitudinal data, you know, for. So I wouldn’t say we disrupt the industry, I’d rather say that we reclaim what’s rightfully ours. And we write the narrative as it should be.

Melissa 

Yeah, I’m so glad that that you clarified that, because I wasn’t feeling myself like disruptor was the right word to describe what what you’re doing. And reclaim just sounds so much more accurate. And and I think probably we put, I don’t know, we put we put it almost like disrupting them on a pedestal, I think and like you said, it can It sounds quite aggressive. And often it’s not, right? It’s not that. I mean, yes, in the tech world, often there is some disruption and completely new technologies. But what you’re describing isn’t, it’s not something new, as you said, it’s reclaiming something that’s rightfully yours.

Jiaming 

I think it’s not only to reclaim I mean, of course, there is technology, technology, is back to it, right? Like we I combined, we do a particular type of Chinese medicine, where I combine really the data collection techniques of health economics, with the traditional, you know, questioning consultation method of Chinese medicine. And we also do this completely virtual, right. So it’s very heavy on the data collection is very heavy, in terms of analysis is very heavy in terms of, you know, tech usage, because without zoom or without certain technology, of course, I’m not able to do that. So it is definitely a different format. And I’m able to reach like patients all around the world, right? That’s very different from before. However, I would still say reclaim because it’s my ancestors that invented this. I am simply a carrier. And I hope to be a good one.

Melissa 

yeah, thank you for Yeah, just adding to that as well. And why do you think movement health and is so fundamental for longevity?

Jiaming 

Oh, it’s funny, I can talk all day about. So because I’m a longevity economist. And I was in charge of the world’s largest longitudinal data folder, adults, all I see every day is what happens to one’s well being after we turn 50. And because the data set was made in a particular way, we were able to get literally monthly update of thee data, how fast one’s health change. And statistically speaking, it’s almost always movement health that break you because it’s almost common sense if you think about it. We now work so long, such long hours in front of the computer, we don’t move. So what happens when you don’t move, you get up you’re like, I have a backache oh, maybe if you do some stretching, it goes away at one point. So technically speaking, after a certain age, it stops going away, it becomes permanent, arthritis starts setting in. And then what happens when you’re not able to move, like as well as you want to, you can’t go to your favorite farmers market, it might be more difficult for you to interact with your friends, then that starts to impact not only just your, your freedom of movement, it starts to impact your neural well being as well. If you’re not able, and statistically speaking, there’s a causal link between, you know, when people become immobile to their neuro well-being, in particular dementia, Alzheimer’s. So to me as an economist, this is almost a no brainer. But to address your question, I did have a lot of difficulty kind of explaining this to our demographic who, you know, frankly, most people don’t know about the importance of movement health and certainly not as well educated in accordance to prevent.

Melissa 

Yeah, so it’s so interesting about… I mean, just sounds like your career really flowed so well from that your role as an economist into the role that you have now. Although, Did you know? Did you like? Did you plan this out?

Jiaming 

Did I plan this out? I did not plan it out. You know, like, a few years ago when I was like running one of the world’s largest conferences, which is so nerdy. Nobody knows about other than economists around the world. In Jordan, I was thinking, Oh, maybe I’ll do this forever. But like, I mean, after I had my first kid, he’s now four. But like, when I had him, you know, give birth to him in Singapore, I actually developed a condition, which was known in Chinese medicine as postpartum arthritis. It’s not actually arthritis, it just presents itself as arthritis. But at the time, you know, I didn’t know. And when I went to the doctor, they said, it needs to be I need to do surgery on your hand. I was like you said, it’s not actually arthritis, yet, you’re going to do surgery on my hand. So I called my dad. And he sent me his own formula, which is really essentially the form of upper mobility, which is one of our two products. And whatever symptom I felt went away, after two weeks, and I never had it again. But yet he told me then, that had I not intervened with treatment, that could have turned into something worse, that maybe I would have to end up having a surgery, you know, so it’s interesting is really about Chinese have been using this with them for like, you know, almost 2500 years, that we use herbal medicine to tonify to replenish, rather than waiting until things get really bad. So no, I don’t think I plan it. But it was, I think the timing was interesting.

Melissa 

Yeah, it’s most of the founders I’ve spoken with have a similar story where like, the kind of the pieces just fall into place with your story. And so you look back, and it’s like, oh, that all makes so much sense. But of course, you had nobody, like nobody actually planned, like, you know, mapped out their life, and then has it worked out in that way.

Jiaming 

Yeah, at the time, when it came back to the state, I thought, the, like pain, chronic pain, it’s, it’s almost another national sport, like everyone has one form or the other about it. And people spend so much money on seeing acupuncturist and chiropractors about this, it takes so much time, yet, there doesn’t seem to be like any, you know, like, we just spend so much energy on this. And yet I realized there is a void in the market is a, you know, an herbal solution that really work, and also easy for you to take. So that’s how I initially got the idea for Kun, and the rest kind of just like, started from there.

Melissa 

I’m so curious, you mentioned some data about the about what happens to us after the age of 50? Is that the majority of the patients and customers coming to your company? Or are they coming to you even more, even sooner?

Jiaming 

So I’m very proud of having a very diverse client portfolio. So the youngest patient I’ve, I have in the early 20s, and the oldest patient I have was under eight. So it’s really a wide range. And I think because with the Chinese medicine as at least I see it as a evolving medicine, you have to spend your whole life dedicating to it to learn, right? It’s the same as life is the same as longevity is not a means to an end in the aging industry. We always say that aging is called aging, because it’s an ongoing, evolving process. It’s not an it’s not like you turn 50 you suddenly you’re you’re suddenly like put in a different box. Although unfortunately, I feel like in our society, that’s what the society does to women to go there after we toward a certain age, you get put in a box, and then nobody care about you anymore. It doesn’t matter how much longer we’re live, right? How much longer actually we live compared to that. But it’s Yeah, so my patients portfolio has always been very diverse. And I like to keep it that way.

Melissa 

That’s fantastic, though, that people are also reaching out to you much younger too, as as you mentioned it, it really is a powerful preventative medicine.

Jiaming 

Yeah, so actually, statistically speaking, 30 to 50. 30, the beginning 30, 28 is when your bone density starts, like your start losing that your muscle mass. But, you know, it’s almost like how our brain grows like when it peaks so what does it do, it will start going down, if you don’t take care of it, it is the same with our physical bodies, like your muscles or tendons or ligaments. And so actually, because of the way we work in this country, like all the time, and we work so intensely with so much with little movements, and when you’re just like, you know, especially with the pandemic, when everyone now starts to work from home, and people start to work more hours than they would have, you know, in the office, the pain and the lack of movement has become a bigger issue. And what we see both in terms of health economics and data, and also in our practice, and the people who use our products, is that people who experienced things keep getting younger, you keep getting people in their late 20s 30s 40s experienced pain that they probably shouldn’t have started to experience until they reached her 50s. So this is really, I think, a public health crisis that that needs to be looked into.

Melissa 

Wow, yeah, no, I so appreciate you mentioning that kind of a profile of your clients, and also to kind of maybe the ideal client that that could come to you because I think a lot of people listening would resonate with that. mean, you know, I’m interviewing founders, I’m interviewing, um, my audience ranges from solopreneurs to to founders of startups. And it has, it kind of doesn’t matter where you’re not in that spectrum, you’re working a lot. So I think it’s a message, it’s a message that is going to be heard on this podcast, the importance of rest and taking care of your health and prioritizing those things, health, mental health, physical health. It’s kind of all one package in my eyes. And so that’s what I hear you’re saying, really, you’re doing with your business is helping people to prioritize that and see the value of it?

Jiaming 

Yeah, I mean, we have a say, in Chinese medicine, this statement has been around for like it’s almost as old as Chinese medicine. So almost like 2500 years, where the whole point of Chinese medicine is prevention. Of course, here in the practice, I, my father, and I ended up seeing a lot more people, you know, because they have symptoms that are so bad, and they have exhausted to Western medicine way. And that’s why they come to us. But the how Chinese medicine was created, it was founded on the strong belief of prevention. So I would say, as a health economist, I see how fast your house can deteriorate if you don’t take care of yourself. So I would definitely emphasize prevention, prevention, prevention.

Melissa 

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, maybe we’ll have to repeat that in the show notes as well, just to remind people of the importance of it. Well, I’m so curious. Um, what about like outside of work? What are things that are really important and valuable to you? That that can that fuel you?

Jiaming 

Um, I think the first thing is to be present for my kids. I have, motherhood has really well, I don’t like to think that motherhood has changed me it didn’t. I think broader. It just offered more colors to my life. I think I was a very black and white person before. And having kids well, having no control over your life whatsoever. To a certain extent. I’m sure you are resonate, also being a mother.

Melissa 

Yes, I’m nodding my head right now.

Jiaming 

It’s deeply humbling. A forces you to always think and prioritize what matters the most. How to stay present, to put your phone away not to take a call when your kids are hurting is so important. I think that’s yeah, and I do enjoy hanging out with my firstborn. In particular, he’s old enough. We go to independent bookstores, we go to coffee shops. I even take him to the farmers market. Or he comes with me on a hike. You know, we do we enjoy each other’s company a lot. And I think the second thing which I do a lot to definitely to unwind is I reserve at least an hour every night before I go to bed to read my favorite genre which is international crime novels. So I am, I read a lot, but like my favorite genre, especially when I’m incredibly busy, is to read international crime novels. And Scandinavian noir is definitely on top there as one of the favorite and the to read, to leave the time to myself to allow myself to do something that I really love. Without, quote unquote being productive, because I was working is really important. Yeah.

Melissa 

Yeah, what a great message there. Just, you really have to prioritize it right, like you’re saying you’re blocking off an hour it, otherwise something else will will take that hour away from him.

Jiaming 

I think it’s really important. And that’s why I have so much respect. And Melissa, for you for what you do, because you’re a psychologist and psychology, a takes a takes from the heart, for you to console the other person is the same for Chinese medicine, because I will know details of my patient that no other person does. And in Chinese medicine, that means it takes a lot of my good chi, it takes a lot of my energy and a piece of me. So it is something that is a sacred healing process. So you really have to take care of yourself. Right? In order to give back.

Melissa 

Yeah, yeah, I always it really resonates with me the idea of like, you can’t pour from an empty cup. That’s one of those ideas that I have to remember it all the time myself, because otherwise I will be pulled by other people other priorities. But if you’re, you’re in this profession with people, you really have to fill your own cup.

Jiaming 

It’s important, and I think that’s what makes us better practitioners. Yeah.

Melissa 

What I would love to know if you have advice for listeners who are considering, you know, they’re kind of at the verge of considering jumping into the world of entrepreneurship themselves. Any words of wisdom for them?

Jiaming 

Oh, yeah. Ah, well, hmm. Since that I’m still discovering that every day myself. I will quote something from Arlan Hamilton, who is someone who wrote this amazing book I read, when I was conceptualizing the ideal plan back then. And she said, something along the lines of no matter what do you offer, just know there is someone in the world that needs it. I think, if I interpreted it, right, what she meant was that you need to be authentic and true to yourself. And don’t be afraid of how people perceive you. Because you are the authentic product, that ultimately people will come and find, I think, so I will borrow her wisdom, to give it to other people, because I really, you know, coming from a more academic field, I really wasn’t sure what I was doing. And I think a lot of that, and I was worried about how I will be perceived on social or, I will be perceived, LinkedIn, etc, because I was used to operating in a certain way. But what she said really resonated with me, because ultimately, we are all we’re all like brands of our own business, like your brand is you and my brand is as me, you can only be confident in your uniqueness, regardless of how weird you think it might be in order for people to resonate with you. So I think that will be my little wisdom that’s borrowed.

Melissa 

No, but I love that I think that that is great wisdom, and the fact that it really resonated with you, I feel like it becomes your wisdom to pass on as well. And, you know, you’ve shared a bit of how it, how it related to your story. And I also wanted to say to it’s because I know some of the people listening, they don’t, they’re not the face of their business. But in this day and age, we all have our like personal brand, so to speak, right? And I do think I think we’re just recognizing more and more the importance of that authenticity. And you know, how to be even if you’re, you know, coming from even if you’ve come from the corporate world, or you are the face of, you know, a startup with millions of dollars of backing. You know, there’s I think we’re just recognize the importance of vulnerability to like, we’re all humans.

Jiaming 

I think, to me, also that what I’m creating for Kun is for this to be a sustainable business. I am an economist, so I will always quote statistics, as annoying as it is. Women tend to have more sustainable business. So I think the mentality of VCs or, you know, founders out there also have to change, are you ultimately investing in a business that’s going to be here after 10 years, or you’re ultimately investing in a business that’s going to be here for a year, and then crash and burn? I think to me, this also has a lot to do with how other societies view women, and our capacity of building success, which then I think their women are incredibly successful in building business. Anyone who say it otherwise, clearly, I don’t know economics and statistics well now, and I think, but I think the, the confidence, regardless of your, you know, what your background is the confidence that should come to a founder, that has to come from you, not from how much money you raise, not from like, you know, how many employees you have, because ultimately, your well being is going to be the vision for the company. And if you’re not going to be well, you’re just simply chasing after money and not focusing on a product. It’s not going to last. So yeah,

Melissa 

It’s a marathon, right? It’s not a sprint. And I loved how you you can.

Jiaming 

And I want to add, if you do sprint, you’re not going to live a very healthy life are very long. So statistically speaking, so you want to be the slow, but steady runner.

Melissa 

Yeah. Oh, well. Let’s see, Jiaming, do you have anything else that you want to share on today’s show? Before we wrap things up?

Jiaming 

I think the one thing I like to see is for there to be more perhaps like opportunities for minority women founders to find each other. And to have maybe even a month, monthly or quarterly chat or something to like, brainstorm ideas, it will be so good to have a community. Because ultimately, you know, we are all in this together. And, but I think I know how difficult it is for us to be seen and to be represented. And that could really affect one, you know, confidence in the long run, if you feel like nobody hears from you, and nobody cares about like, what do you do? So, yeah, I would be happy to share my information with any miniority women founder who want to connect and share our wisdom.

Melissa 

Yeah, oh, well, having a community especially one that you know, you have things in common with who really understand some of the unique challenges you’re facing, I think is so important for for that marathon we talked about. And so, watch out because I’m pretty sure that you’re gonna have some of the listeners getting in touch with you. And taking you up on that idea. You might end up founding an entrepreneur support group. Okay, great. Where can people get in touch with you if they would like to like to talk more?

Jiaming 

People are welcome to connect with me on LinkedIn with my name, Jiaming Ju or you’re welcome to follow Kun.Health Kun.health on Instagram, you’re always welcome to send me a DM.

Melissa 

Wonderful. Well, I will also link to all of those things that you’ve shared with me. You’ve shared them with me, so I’ll link to them in the show notes. Thank you again. I mean, it was really a pleasure. I’ve learned so much myself and I feel really inspired by your story and excited to see where you take things with Kun Health.

Jiaming 

Thank you, Melissa. grateful to be here.

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